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I'm not in the process of building right now so I won't try this any time soon but I awoke this morning with the above idea. I know that the hide glue crew will chime in but why not use CA on tops and backs? It certainly dries hard so tonally it shouldn't dampen. Plenty strong though its long term durability a bit in question.

The first limitation I thought of was the neck and heel block as those areas may be difficult to flood from the edges but it seems it would be interesting to apply some accelerator to the kerfing and flood the top and back joints with CA. Has anyone tried it?

Larry

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Thank You and Best To All

Certainly an interesting idea, especially as a way to clamp an otherwise
normal glue up.

My worry, based on what little experience I have with CA, is that it would
be too britle and the joint would be liable to fail pretty quickly due to the
stresses of expansion and contraction. But, that's largely an uneducated
hunch.

Maybe John Mayes will chime in here, as he is building a "road show" guitar at the APM forum, I know in a picture I seen him using CA to join the top. Also Kevin Gallagher built an entire guitar with it, I think the only issue is longevity.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Larry,
   I did build an entire guitar using CA years ago for a friend/player who needed a guitar in a hurry. Every glue joint was done using CA glues of different viscosities and the guitar only took a matter of a day or so to build. He's still using the guitar and hasn't had a single joint fail yet, but I would never recommend using the CA glues for wood to wood joints where integrity and longevity are concerns. His bridge was even glued down using CA glue and t has held up so far....probably aided a bit by his use of very light strings on the guitar.

As I said this guitar was for a friend and has no warranty covering any part of its materials or workmanship. I always keep my jointery machinery set up to pretty tight toleranes so the joints and edges were all nicely matched and very clean which would certainly have a bearing on the longevity of the guitar as it will on any guitar regardles of the type of glue being used.

    Poorly matched or machined joint surfaces will be present a level of risk for failure no matter how good the glue is or how good its reputation for holding. When stress and glue joints are involved in the same application, there needs to be good machining of all surfaces.

   Your best bet is to just get a good joint prepared and clamp the joint with one of the high quality Alaphatic resin glues that are readily available or hot hide glue for an hour. Avoid the CA glues for stress exposed applications would be my advice to any builder.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher

The thing that worries me most about CA, for anything, is longevity. In all circumstances in nature or otherwise, that I can think of, things that happen fast don't last long. A fast growing tree might look good, but doesn't have nearly the life span of a slow growing one. I'm probably talking through my hat as I'm an old man.

Personally, I wouldn't use CA for anything structural. Besides, there would be enough fumes in your shop to kill a herd of buffalo.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

endurance and repair ability? I think I will stick to HG and titebond MichaelP38788.7077199074

I have used CA to join backs for years without a failure up to now.

CA is nasty stuff, you want to aim towards limiting your exposure to it, not finding more uses for it. Breathing those fumes for hours on end will do you no good at all.

I used to use it all day at work and now I'm sensitised to it. Can't even take the cap of the bottle anymore without paying for it. Starting about six hours after exposure my nose just runs and runs, worse than the worst cold you ever had. Then it's flu-like symptoms for two or three days after. I get like that now just from one good wiff of the fumes.

You have been warned.

[QUOTE=LanceK] Maybe John Mayes will chime in here, as he is building
a "road show" guitar at the APM forum, I know in a picture I seen him
using CA to join the top. Also Kevin Gallagher built an entire guitar with
it, I think the only issue is longevity.[/QUOTE]

Your mistaken. I am only using Hide glue on that guitar, and titebond for
a few things that are too large for my slowness. Some CA might have
been in a picture, but I've never used CA for a top or back joint, nor
would I recommend it.John Mayes38788.7233796296

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

opps, sorry bout that John, thought I seen a bottle of Stewmac CA. My bad

HEY! Ive never used that Hip saying!

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Very interesting responses, as I knew there would be.

[QUOTE=Robbie O'Brien] I have used CA to join backs for years without a failure up to now. [/QUOTE]

Robbie, would this be a back glued to sides, or a back set glued together?

[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher] I did build an entire guitar using CA years ago for a friend/player who needed a guitar in a hurry.[/QUOTE]

Kevin, I wonder how many years would have to go by before the guitar you built entirely out of CA would be considered a longevity success?

Thanks for the input

Larry

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John, i went back and viewed the article on APM, indeed you are using HHG, and there is a bottle of CA in the foreground, im GUITLY of not reading and just looking at the picture

Wouldnt be the first time

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

CA is not a good glue on some spruce as it tends to yellow. I don't use CA for more than a few repairs and such. Tite bond or Hide is my preference
john

Sometimes I join the back plates together with CA but I don't use it to join the back to the rims.   

I do my best to avoid CA as the fumes from it are pretty nasty, as Paul said I wouldn't look for additional Jobs for it.

Besides which apart from the type of scenario Kevin talks about where speed was a real issue, I can't see any advantage and only a whole pile of disadvantages to using it.RussellR38789.1570833333

CA isn't allowed in my shop, due to the health issues. It really is nasty stuff and would have to be used in a fume chamber in the labs, it's not meant for gross application, which is why it comes in small bottles. If it stings your eyes it's already doing you no good. Hide glue, titebond, LMI white, we really don't need anything else. When I read "wick in some CA" or worse "flood the area with CA",I really shudder.

ColinColin S38789.2726967593

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I still think it has it's uses for abalone rosettes, but I wear a full respirator rated for organic fumes, and swimming goggles to keep the fumes out of my eyes, take it outside in a stiff breeze and stand up wind. Ya'll think I'm joking. I'm not . That's the only way I can use it without ill effects. Freaks out the neighbours though.

Colin, If I were a thinking man (obviously I'm not) I would have taken the top to work and wicked in some CA in the fume hood. Next time...PaulB38789.2638310185

Larrivee backs have been joined with a thin CA soak and no back strip since day one for the company, according to an interview in a GAL article. I have two myself, one about 15 years old now. I don't hear a groundswell of complaints on any luthery group about Larrivee back seams needing repair, so my conclusion is that CA does a fine job on backs. Not for tops, unless you are taking precautions to avoid staining from the CA soaking into the wood. For joining back to sides, I'd like a little more wiggle time.

Jim Kirby

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Hey, Ron, from one old man to another, I think you're right about longevity. I've observed the same thing in weather and relationships, (not that I've dove into many relationships since I got married ).

Just listening to my gut, I'd steer clear of CA in major structural joints like the top join, plates to sides, etc.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I'll be listening to the old men, not old at my age but old enough to learn from Wisdom..........and Foster!